Category: Transforming Trauma Podcast

In medical terminology, “evidenced-based” is a gold star endorsement awarded to recurrent standards of proof that arise from comparison studies of a specific treatment protocol or prevention. Is it possible to validate NARM’s efficacy using those same evidence-based standards? Should we? In this episode of Transforming Trauma, Emily is joined by Salman Alawadi, a NARM practitioner and Ph.D. candidate in Research, Measurement, and Evaluation at the University of Miami, for a fascinating discussion about the challenges of developing an evidence-based standard for NARM and distilling that research into accessible data. 

Clients with Complex-PTSD present with psychological conditions that pose unique limitations for establishing efficacy under the current medical parameter. “The difficulty with NARM establishing itself as an evidence-based treatment lies also in the challenge that is related to conducting any research on complex PTSD.”  Salman explains that “the problem is not with pushing toward evidence-based approaches. It's important that there’s a continuous push for evidence because, through evidence, we know what works.” Instead, he calls out psychology’s fixation with the medical model. 

Salman argues that applying the same linear methodology used in, say, cancer research to a study of clients with C-PTSD misses the nuances intrinsic to the human brain. “Mental health disorders are not called mental health diseases. When we talk about a disorder, we don't understand the mechanism of it. When we talk about a disease, we know what's going on. A disorder describes the manifestation of a disease that is unknown.” He advocates for creating more rigorous criteria to understand a psychological intervention like NARM than the current evidence-based model. “The role of NARM is to help validate the construct because, as experts in that area, we are the most capable of validating that concept.” To that end, he says NARM practitioners already have the data sitting in front of them in the form of patients. Now, all the NARM community has to do is develop a strategy for collecting that information, conducting a thorough analysis, and disseminating those findings. 

We appreciate Salman for sharing his exciting work with us and championing the drive to standardize NARM efficacy research and make it more accessible to all. We invite the Transforming Trauma audience to learn more about Salman’s approach to analyzing NARM outcomes by listening to the entire episode.

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Forgiveness can transform lives. In this episode of Transforming Trauma, Emily explores the holistic practice of restorative justice with Dr. Elaine Leeder, a professor and prolific writer who's worked in mental hospitals, gerontology, foster care, domestic violence, and drug and alcohol counseling as a social worker and psychotherapist. As Emily discovers, Elaine's current pro bono work with incarcerated individuals and those they've harmed is remarkable for its progressive approach to redemption. 

In her 28 years working with prisoners, Elaine has witnessed the devastating effects of early childhood trauma compounded by the consequences of institutionalized mistreatment. She has also experienced the power of collective healing. While the journey forward is often painful, Elaine believes this path offers an intentional alternative to traditional incarceration.  

“People are not the worst things they've done,” Elaine insists. Her empathetic statement complements the NARM principle that humans can repair persistent, outdated adaptive survival strategies through connection, attunement, trust, and autonomy. These core capacities are difficult to access in prison, however. In her opinion, what generally happens inside prisons is retribution, not rehabilitation. “There's no healing if you're locked into a cell the size of a cage.”

Elaine calls upon various spiritual themes to facilitate healing between participants, a technique that’s familiar to NARM practitioners as well. Teshuva, the Jewish tradition of repentance, invites a return to the pure self, while ahimsa, invokes the ancient Indian principle of nonviolence. “It's a very spiritual experience that I engage in with these people. I see it as a form of healing the world, of mending the harm that has been done to both victim and offender,” she says, adding, “I feel enormously privileged to be present to watch the transformation that takes place with these folks.”

We feel enormously privileged to share Elaine's work with Transforming Trauma listeners. Her ability to hold compassion for both incarcerated people and the victims of their crime is inspiring, and we're grateful to her for facilitating opportunities in which collaborative healing can take root. We invite you to learn more about Elaine's commitment to trauma care and restorative justice by engaging with the full episode.

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In this episode of Transforming Trauma, Emily is joined by Dr. Stephen Gilligan, psychotherapist, author, workshop leader, and transformation specialist. “The most common word you'll hear me use in a therapy session is ‘welcome’. Welcome.” It's in this spirit of openness and curiosity that Emily and Dr. Gilligan discuss his life's work, what he's learned about connection and fulfilling core needs, plus the creative paths that bring clients back into life and a happy future.

After receiving his doctorate in Psychology from Stanford University and motivated by his life experiences, he developed a new practice incorporating Ericksonian psychotherapy, Aikido Buddhism, meditation, and the performance arts. His work focuses on the awakening of the soul, drawing parallels from other traditions where such explorations are essential to awakening the human spirit. He's the author of several books in the field, as well as many papers on hypnosis, hypnotherapy, and the works of Milton Erickson.

Extraordinary journeys of self-discovery often begin with a simple invitation. NARM practitioners encourage these explorations by asking clients to set an intention from the beginning for the work ahead. Stephen Gilligan, PhD., takes a similarly powerful approach. At the start of each visit, he warmly receives both the client and their trauma into the therapeutic space.

One of the central themes in NARM is a connection to ourselves, each other, and our surroundings. Dr. Gilligan leans into this interdependence in his own practice, helping the client address (or welcome) their trauma and notice where they can replace outdated survival skills with more authentic modes of being. “Trauma is one of the more significant events that will be a significant piece of [a person's] identity,” he says. The disassociation that often follows a single incident or complex traumatic event is, as Dr. Gilligan explains, an act of self-love designed to keep the client safe––for a while. “It worked great as a short-term strategy; it sucks in the long-term.”

Dr. Gilligan believes that dissociation starts to break down when the tactic is no longer needed. He uses hypnotherapy not as a means of regression but as a catalyst for clients to develop resources in the present. It's a collaborative process that mirrors NARM, reinforcing client agency and activating new competencies for self-management and resilience.

About Stephen Gilligan, Ph.D.:

Stephen Gilligan, Ph.D., is a psychologist who received his doctorate from Stanford University. He was a major student of Milton Erickson and has been elaborating this work for the past 35 years while also developing Generative Psychotherapy. In 2004, he received the rarely-given Lifetime Achievement Award from the Erickson Foundation in honor of his many contributions. He is well-known throughout the world for his inspirational teaching. Dr. Gilligan has published extensively, and his books include Therapeutic Trances: The Co-Operation Principle In Ericksonian Hypnotherapy, The Courage to Love: Principles and Practices of Self-Relations Psychotherapy, The Legacy of Erickson, Walking In Two Worlds: The Relational Self In Theory, Practice, And Community, and The Hero’s Journey (w/ R. Dilts); Generative Trance: The Experience of Creative Flow; and Generative Coaching. He has worked with trauma as a psychotherapist for over 40 years.

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Website – Stephen Gilligan, PhD.

In this episode of Transforming Trauma, NARM Senior Trainer Brad Kammer is joined by Dr. Daniel Schiff, licensed psychologist in the Portland area and adjunct faculty member at several universities. Dr. Schiff has lectured widely on topics related to emotions, psychotherapy, and Reichian and Gestalt therapy. With over three decades of experience, he is considered an expert in somatic psychology and is known for his work with Contemporary Orgone (Reichian) Therapy, a relational and emotionally focused, character based somatic psychotherapy that addresses both the psychological and the physiological underpinnings of emotional distress.

Dr. Schiff reflects on his interest and training in various humanistic psychology perspectives, including Reichian and Gestalt Therapy. His master's project was an exploration of Reichian therapy, and his doctoral dissertation was a study on the relationship between the inhibition of breathing and emotional repression. Now many years later, Dr. Schiff shares that he continues to evolve his understanding and psychotherapeutic approach, currently integrating information from modern neuroscience. He believes that this evolutionary process is in alignment with Wilhelm Reich’s approach as Reich was committed to ongoing study, evolution and advancement of his theories.

Dr. Schiff and Brad reflect on the tragic story of Dr. Wilhelm Reich and reminisce about Reich’s impact on the field of somatic psychotherapy and their own clinical work. They reflect on how Reich’s original work directly influenced somatic modalities such as Gestalt Therapy, Hakomi Psychotherapy, and Somatic Experiencing, as well as indirectly influenced a number of other models including EMDR. This reflection leads to Dr. Schiff sharing his perspective on the use of catharsis in psychotherapy, and how when not trauma-informed, expressive models can lead to dysregulation and overwhelm. However, he also shares his perspective that if therapies don’t include enough direct expressiveness, they may not lead to lasting change.  Together, Dr. Schiff and Brad reflect deeper on the current field and future trends of somatic psychotherapy.

We are grateful to Dr. Schiff for his incredible insight to the world of somatic psychology. We invite you to listen to the full episode to learn more about his approach to working with the breath and in the present moment as well as his advice for the next generation of psychologists.

About Dr. Daniel Schiff:

Dr. Daniel Schiff, is a licensed psychologist in private practice with 45 years of clinical experience in somatic psychotherapy from a Reichian and Gestalt perspective. He has lectured widely on topics related to emotions, psychotherapy, and Reichian and Gestalt therapy to both public and professional audiences, provide clinical seminars, training and supervision to mental health professionals. Dr. Schiff also offers a 4-year training program in Contemporary Orgone (Reichian) Therapy. 

In addition to his clinical work, Dr. Schiff has been an adjunct faculty member in psychology at Seattle Central Community College, Antioch University, and the Washington School of Professional Psychology (Argosy University – Seattle), and currently offers a course in somatic psychology at Lewis and Clark college.

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Website – Daniel Schiff, PHD

In this episode of Transforming Trauma, Emily is joined by Monti Pal, Licensed Professional Counselor and NARM Therapist with a special focus in the emerging field of Psychedelic Assisted Therapy. Monti’s vast experience in clinical settings, psychiatric hospitals, and now private practice, have provided her with a unique way of understanding the diversity of people’s healing journeys. Like many inquisitive clinicians, she is reflecting on how to best provide supportive and transformative care for her clients, and this professional journey has led her to studying both the NeuroAffective Relational Model and Psychedelic Assisted Therapy. 

Right around the same time Monti was introduced to NARM, she was also introduced to the field of Psychedelic Assisted Therapy. While she was training in NARM, she began the Psychedelic-Assisted Therapies Program at CIIS, a MDMA Therapy training with MAPS, and began studying with the Polaris Insight Center to further her knowledge of Ketamine Assisted Therapy. Over the past few years Monti has been passionate about bringing together these two powerful models in treating complex trauma and other life challenges that clients bring into psychotherapy.

In her upcoming webinar with the NARM Training Institute – Healing Complex Trauma with Psychedelics and Plant Medicine – Monti will provide an overview about how to integrate NARM and Psychedelic Assisted Therapy to support helping professionals in this field. She will more clearly define Psychedelic Assisted Therapy, and provide context for how it is seen as a new field in the realm of psychology even though it has deep roots in indigenous cultures and religions. 

While Monti is so excited about being part of this burgeoning field, she is also transparent about the challenges associated with it, for example that most of these medicines are still illegal in the United States, even for clinical use. Therefore, Monti is a strong advocate for proper training, ongoing ethical conversations, and clinical consultation for anyone working within this field. 

Monti highlights how NARM-oriented clinical principles such as agency, intention, inquiry, embodiment, intersubjectivity and countertransference make NARM a great modality to integrate with Psychedelic Assisted Therapy. NARM looks at a client’s capacity, which is about how much a person can stay present to and contain an experience without it overwhelming them. Monti’s hypothesis is that clients who are experiencing severe levels of disconnection in their life need a lot more support before diving into plant medicine and psychedelics, and that is where NARM comes in. She recognizes that many clients require a supportive framework like NARM that centers agency and consent, which prepare clients for their psychedelic-assisted sessions. Additionally, these clinical skills can be used for integration after psychedelic-assisted sessions. 

We are grateful to Monti for sharing the exciting possibilities and current challenges in this emerging field. We invite you to listen to the full episode to learn more about Monti’s journey and how she is integrating NARM to best support Psychedelic Assisted Therapy.

About Monti Pal:

Monti is a Licensed Professional Counselor who runs a private psychotherapy practice in Austin, TX. Monti attended the University of Texas at Austin where she earned her Masters of Education in Counseling Psychology. Monti has past experience working at SafePlace, Bluebonnet Trails Community Services, Rock Springs Hospital, and other sites. Monti is also a NARM Therapist trained in using the Neuroaffective Relational Model (NARM) to support the healing of complex trauma. 

Monti is interested in psychedelic therapies for mental health and how NARM can be an essential therapeutic tool to help lead psychedelic assisted therapy sessions. Monti completed her certification in Psychedelic therapy through the CIIS program at the Center for Psychedelic Therapy and Research in 2021. 

In her free time, Monti likes to spend time with her two kids, likes to learn to cook different types of cuisine, enjoys learning new skills and trying new activities, and loves to travel. 

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Website – Mindfulness with Monti

Webinar with NARM – Healing Complex Trauma with Psychedelics and Plant Medicine

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